♪ ♪

♪ imus in the morning ♪ ♪ >> is apple still the king of cool? good morning, everyone, well, did you watch the big concert last night? have you watched much football recently? where were the apple ads? the samsung galaxy phone he was everywhe everywhere, so was the microsoft tablet. nearly 200 below the high, the question stands, is apple still king? good question. google is it on the attack and telling apple to get lost, almost literally. and there's a new app which puts google maps back on the ipad,

goodbye apple happens. hipocracy keeps coming after you. warren buffett's berkshire hathaway's buying back stock why? to' void taxes increases, warren was rooting for, and an estate tax he himself will not pay. are you getting tired of this? "varney & company" is about to begin. from the best players in history to the number 1 club in the world. the potential of manchester united unlocked.

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>> ♪ ♪ >> you've got to say he's still the greatest, isn't he? eric clapton performing at the 12-12-12 concert to benefit the victims of hurricane sandy. the event went on five hours and a ton of money. 36 million alone in ticket sales

and does not count the donations or the money they got from sponsored like samsung which surely paid a big price to have the galaxy phones featured everywhere and the celebrities answering the calls from people who phoned in donations, galaxy phones they were using. you're seeing galaxy ads everywhere, they dominate football games on sundays as well. apple, the ipad, ipad mini, the iphone their ads have been swamped by samsung and microsoft. is apple still the king of cool? shareholders wants to know and so do i. let's bring in mark, editor in chief of laptop magazine. is apple still the king of cool? what do you say. >> when it comes to the design and getting the latest apps first, would i say yes for apple, but perception is becoming reality when it comes to the marketing ads you're talking about. when people see the big screen galaxy note 2 and in the office when i show people turn it on its side and two applications

running on the screen the same time and pen input. in a lot of areas they're out-innovating apple and outmarketing apple, apple's bread and butter for a long time. stuart: mark, we'll get you more on the microsoft surface tablet. hold on a second i've got this for you. you want cool? take a look at this house, a mansion this miami on the market more than six months and get this, it was bought by a foreign investor they're everywhere and sold for under asking price, guess how much? we'll be telling you that, how much it cost and other properties, too, at the top of the hour coming up. here is what we have next. the new microsoft tablet. we have one right here on the set with us. what makes it so cool? should apple be worried? [ male announcer ] this is steve.

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♪ >> here we go. thursday morning in the news background today. retail sales up, but only just. in the latest month. producer prices down and of course, we had yesterday the announcement from ben bernanke, he's going to be spending, printing 85 billion dollars a month to keep interest rates low and try to get the unemployment rate to 6 1/2%. he's been doing it for four years and i don't know how the market's going to react to that. in the very early going this

morning, we're down five points. the opening trend is ever so slightly down after the announcement of a big printing oranges. right off the bat, i want to look at warren buffett's berkshire hathaway. buffett brought back 1.2 billion dollars worth of shares from one investor yesterday and that likely helped that investor, helped his estate save substantially on taxes ahead of higher tax rates, which are almost certain for next year, remember, buffett also called on congress to raise the estate tax on the wealthy and he wants the rich to may more in taxes and i'm going to use the word hipocracy rightly on wrongly and encouraging everybody else to pay more, but he and his company doesn't pay that tax, very interesting. a new report that the founder of best buy, richard schultz is going to make an offer to buy the company back, take it private again. possibly the offer comes tomorrow. nicole, i've got to believe that best buy is up. stuart: you believe correctly, up about 15%.

refer time we hear that richard schultz is moving forward with taking his baby private, it goes up and every time it's not, it tanks. the sales have been dwinldling and is he and a group trying to take it private. stuart: i'm waiting for solar city, the solar panel company and i think the ipo is today when it starts trading we'll get back to you then. thanks a lot. i'll show you about the price of gas because it continues to drop. the national average for a gallon of regular down another penny, we're at 3.31 now, diesel 3.97. i've got to tell you, it's still the highest price for gas ever at this time of year. new york still the highest in the continental u.s., 3.78 in new york, that's the average and missouri the lowest, $3.01 a share and missouri is the only city, only place, rather, where we found major cities with the

average price under $3. again, the star is st. louis, at 298. let's get back to apple, losing its cool, maybe. and mark is still with us, the editor in chief of laptop magazine. all right. i want to talk about-- let's see, this is the microsoft surface tablet, all right. >> yes. stuart: now, is this a threat to apple's dominance of the tablet market and apple's dominance of cool? do you like this thing? >> in the short-term i don't think it's a threat, but there are some things that surface has especially for workers that the ipad doesn't, one of the things off the bat you'll notice this has a smart cover, sort of like the ipad, but this one has a deboard built in and you see on the back, this little kick stand in the design, lets you prop it it up. lets you use it as a mini laptop. stuart: do you guys in high-tech like this thing, acceptable, a real player in the tablet market from microsoft.

>> yes. it's a qualified yes because it has potential, when you think about it this is microsoft's first fablet and usually takes a couple of runs for them to get something right, but like the live tell interface, which is dynamic, it's a lot more personal than the ios, a lot of your stuff springs to life, that sort of thing. stuart: it's an active screen, isn't it the tiles or whatever you call them. >> the live tiles, keeps you up-to-date and so, for example, could i my wife what she posted on twitter or facebook. stuart: automatically, don't have to go to it pops up sitting there waiting for you. >> exactly. stuart: hold on a second, you've got a phone, the microsoft phone, isn't it. >> right. stuart: now, is that a threat to the iphone? you better turn that thing off i'm getting all kinds of rf. and is that a threat to the iphone and the coolness of the iphone? >> i think-- >> we're still getting the buzz. >> are we? 3 c1 you have to turn it off. >> i'm sorry.

there you go, okay, so, i do think between these two devices, windows phone is bigger threat not only to the iphone, but to android because there's more partner involved and doing more with the software. one feature we like in windows phone 8 is a feature kids corner. when you hand your phone to the kids, press power button swipe to the right and only apps you approved for nem on the screen. and another feature, rooms, all members of the family can share messages and photos. what's interesting to me is that microsoft didn't make these features available on windows 8 itself. and when i asked that question they said we're working on it, release schedules were not together, but little things like that tells me that microsoft's division needs to be working more closely together. nos dialogs must be broken down. stuart: full disclosure, i own stock in microsoft. everybody knows it i'm not grinding an ax, you're telling me that that windows phone and

tablet are pretty good entry for microsoft into the phone and tablet marketplace. >> i think the phone is a better start, it's been around longer, tablet side a lot of of people are confused by the interface. stuart: do you think that phone is a threat to android devices. >> it will eat into its share other time. there's more partners getting involved and leverage brand like xbox. and one rumor that microsoft is coming out with a xbox focused gaming tablet, much less productivity, more focused on gaming and entertainment. something for 2013. stuart: all right. mark, thank you for being here, good stuff. >> a good example why you don't see a lot of the day-to-day back and forth from fiscal cliff talks reported here on "varney & company" because it really is maddening. it turns people off. we know that. listen to how harry reid responded to, what i'm going to say is a perfectly legitimate

request he whether they will bring the president's fiscal cliff proposal to a vote. just listen to this. >> the white house proposal that they floated around on capitol hill will-- >> i, i don't know. i have no idea what you're talking about. >> the white house's plan, the treasury secretary-- >> you know what the plan is it? >> the plan that included ref nigh awn-- >> what kind of revenue. >> the top 2%. >> what else? >> and the debt limit and-- >> what else. >> and there's plenty. 1.6 trillion and the stimulus, 2 it00, 200 billion. >> i think it was-- >> and --. >> well, joining us now is the man who had that exchange with senator reed from the daily caller. nick, what did you and/or our viewers and myself. what are we supposed to get out of that interview with senator

ray reid. >> i went in to the press conference not knowing i'd get a quiz about the details. it was a clear question to the majority leader will you bring the president's plan up for a vote and he clearly did not want to answer it and an attempt to distract from the question asking me what are the details of this plan. and i think it points to an issue we have in in fiscal cliff debate, where you know, no one really knows the heart of this debate and the real issues that are at stake here. >> well, and then senator reid put you down in a way and the other members of the media around you. i thought they were, they were basically laughing, they were laughing attyou. now, what does that tell you and our viewers about the establishment media and their reaction to your interchange with senator reid? >> if i were in the audience when that was going on, i would have had followed up and i've done it before. i asked follow-up questions

about issues that you know people are bringing up in presence conferences when the person on the podium is not answering the question. it makes sense to keep asking questions to get the answers and nobody, nobody did. stuart: that's very true. nobody did it and you know, it's just maddening for us viewers to look at this debate and it's not a debate at all. we're on the outside, can't find out what's going on. nick, we appreciate you being with us, i'm sorry to cut it short. all kinds of stuff going on today. but nick, thanks for being with us, appreciate it. >> thank you. >> here is what we have new at ten. the president wants to keep on spending, but that's not what the voters want. new numbers on the deficit and poll numbers showing a strong move towards cutting spending. that will come up at the top of the hour, this program today. also, in our next hour. why is john stossel offending commissions two weeks before christmas? here what he said at 10:45.

apple iphone users rejoicing after news that google is bringing back the map application. where is the stock of apple-- google-- >> we're watching both, google is higher. what's the story, stuart? what do you think? is it that apple iphone users are finally happy because they've been so annoyed with the new map service at apple, it stinks and happy to get it. stuart: and i think that-- >> is it that they're crawling back to google. stuart: no, no, i think the story is google is socking it to apple and say, hey, we've got an app and put it on the ipad and ipad mini through apple. go away apple maps, it's poi pointless. >> the google guys must be running around the offices with confetti and horns and saying, yes! you couldn't do it without us. stuart: that's exactly right.

>> and that's what they're doing over there at google. stuart: that's right, so google is up and apple i think is barely holding its own, i think it's down at the moment. >> it is down 1%. stuart: we've been questioning whether apple is still cool and we'll keep questioning. nicole, thank you very much indeed. again this thursday morning, i've got to tell you it's a dead flat market. look at that, down 1 points. the day after ben announces a new printing operation. that's dead flat. all right, thursday morning, 7 early movers for you, maker of george foreman grills and rayo vac batteries, say that some shareholders are selling and that stock is down big pill. pep boys the board authorized 50 million dollars stock repurchase program. up a little bit. boston brew, that is the boston-- is it boston beer? yes, boston beer, brewer of sam add dollar amounts and raised the profit forecast and stock is up big time. look at that, $16 higher. endo health solutions expects profits this year and next year, they're going to disappoint,

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special 30% savings. >> to the big board, i'll say is again, dead flat this thursday morning. and this in several major cities, new york, philadelphia, los angeles the percentage of obese children is falling, okay, not by much, but falling after years of going up. i'm going to say that the anti-obesity advocates like meme roth have helped. i don't always agree with her, but she's the national founder of action against obesity and with us. before i let you do a victory lap. let's define our terms here. obesity in children in new york city schools between 2007-2011 have dropped. how do we define obesity. >> for children roughly in the 95th percentile or above

compared to the other children. stuart: that definition has not shifted. you're not cooking the numbers. >> not during that time frame at all. >> so if you're in the top five percentile of weight versus height, you are obese and the number in that percentile is falling in new york city, los angeles, have i got a right. >> that's right. stuart: what is your explanation? why is this happening? >> i don't think it's time for a mission accomplished banner, but, i think after seeing decades of rates that triple, that seeing a flattening and even a flight decline is so encouraging, stuart, and i think it's-- >> and why is it happening? >> it's validation that when parents become informed, that they'll make different decisions about their children and also, when you look at the cities, philadelphia, new york, l.a., there is he' a multi-faceted concerted effort to make change in the environment kids are in during the day. homes, school, sports programs, so, they've removed a lot of the

junk food. they've removed a the lot of agents of obesity and diabetes from the children's environment and has a profound impact. >> do you break it down by race or ethnicity, has that been done? >> yes, to a certain extent we saw a slighter, greater he decrease among white children in new york, however, in philadelphia, they saw the increase greater, the decrease, a larger number-- how do you say that, a bigger decrease among children of color in philadelphia so it's not an exact thing, but you're seeing the needle move and i think that's most important. you and i started doing interviews, i think, six, seven years ago. >> been a while. stuart: you made a name for yourself when you moved to new jersey-- >> i was in new jersey, seven years ago i was in new jersey. stuart: and you objected to your children being offered cupcakes at birthday parties at school. >> right. stuart: that's how you got to our attention, i believe, right. >> yeah, well, what it is, is look, my kids can have a cuppake

during the weekend at a party, but i don't want that all day every day in school and that's the environment children are in. they can't get away from somebody shoving a donut or a cupcake in their face, sign them up for sports, donuts. in school, cupcakes. how do they get away. stuart: i'm going to let you do this victory lap, i think you had an impact and i respect that. meme roth everybody. >> thank you, stuart. stuart: it's that time. the gold report. what are you paying today for an ounce. $1,694.23 and 8 cents. and that's a drop takes us below 1700, that's the gold report. and warren buffett seems to talk a lot about raising taxes on the rich. we're going to check on this. he let an investor cash out of company stock to avoid taxes in the new year. two extreme positions.

he's for taxes for everybody else, but not for him. and charles payne and carol roth are here. ♪

. stuart:. let's get back to warren buffett and my use of the word hipocracy for rich with guilty conscience. buy back stock and helped save that person save substantially on the higher taxes next year. warren is all for everybody else paying taxes and bails out this particular investor and so that he paid lower taxes, charles, have you got a number on this? >> all right, on the back of an envelope i came up with 105.6 million dollars, that was the savings. stuart: savings for the investor whose stock was bout back by warren buffett. 105 million dollars which did not go to the treasury. charles: right. stuart: and had the transaction taken place next year. charles: absolutely, absolutely. stuart: do you call that hipocracy. charles: of course i call it hipocracy, the worst kind of hipocracy and amazing that they can use warren buffett's name in this campaign against small successful people.

stuart: carolyn, am i too harsh? >> you're not. berkshire hathaway has a billion dollars in backs taxes it's fighting and i don't understand why warren buffett think he's the poster child for people who make 200 or 250,000 or even a million dollars a year and the thing that kills me, stuart, there is no action here, it's just a bunch of words. if warren buffett wants to give more money to the government. step up. he signed a pledge, he wants you to give more money. >> he signed a pledge to give most of his money away, turn that over to the government. >> so he doesn't pay tax, no, he gives it to charity. >> he wants the other people to-- wealthier than he is. >> and president obama may have won reelection, but is he listening to the voters? now, a new poll shows how concerned they are about spending. but the president keeps on doing it. new numbers on that coming up at ten. and check out this mansion in miami, bought by a foreign investor for way below market value. guess the price? the answer coming up next.

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force? and yes, they want a federal bailout. we're talking about all of this. and a whole lot more with this company: recovering investment banker. charles payne is here and nicole petallides always on the floor of the new york stock exchange. thursday morning, i will say it again, dead flat for the dow jones industrial average. and we have dead flat, the rate on 30 year mortgages from freddie mac actually it's down a tad, 3.32%. how's that for a 30 year? i've been saying this for weeks now, who would have thought. here's another number for you, the u.s. government spent 172 billion dollars more than it took in, during november alone. that means we're very likely headed for another trillion dollars annual deficit. that would be the fifth straight. the national debt, 16.37 trillion dollars. president obama apparently not concerned. he wants more spending. now, look at this. new poll from fox news, the

question, what's the best way to fix the economy? 33% said tax increases on the wealthy. 61% said spending cuts also needed. is the president listening? apparently not. charles, what do you say? -- sorry, carol? charles: go carol. >> ladies first today. they're definitely not listening. the fiscal cliff is all about tax hikes. it is not about the spending cuts. then's a problem because we have sluggish growth and we have a spending problem and 16 trillion in debt and raising those taxes aren't going to fix our problems. i've never heard of taxing our way into prosperity. and so i don't understand why the discussion is centering so much around the hikes and not around cutting the spending, which is what we need to do. stuart: the president actually wants 50 billion in extra spending in the -- charles: he also wants the power to raise the debt willy-nilly whenever he wants. the g.o.p. lost that.

they should have drawn that line in the sand a long time ago. it's always been about revenues. boehner's already given in on that. it's just how do we come to that numb number? here's the thing, the president isn't going to listen to anything outside of the oval office. what they are telling him, you have a mandate, you have a decisive victory, pound, pound, pound. stuart: i think he will have a tax increase on the rich, promise of spending cuts -- charles: we've already had that before. stuart: ignore the debt. charles: we've seen that before. >> it's getting completely out of control with the spending. stuart: want to move fast to research in motion. nicole, i think we have news on the stock and i think it is up again. nicole: unbelievable. up over 18% for the month of december. today it is up over 3%. couple of things happening. everybody is waiting for the blackberry 10 to be released on january 30th. today we're learning that the

u.s. immigration and customs enforcement agency, they are going to try out the blackberry 10. they had recently dumped blackberry. they went to apple iphone. and it looks like they're trying to make a go of it and come back to blackberry. that's huge. that's what blackberry wants. they want to get corporations and government agencies to use the blackberry. stuart: i hate charts but that is a good chart because that tells the story. that's the kind of chart that i like and can live with. it's really gone straight up. nicole: you should never say hate; right? stuart: when did we put it on death watch? nicole: don't say we. you put it on death watch. stuart: okay. i believe that chart started just after we put it on death watch. nicole: i'm only part of we when we are right. stuart: that's right. [laughter] >> i'm thrilled stuart because i'm a blackberry user. this means i get to hang on to my blackberry for is a little bit longer. -- for a little bit longer.

stuart: wait till the blackberry 10 comes out. >> i'm excited. stuart: if you watched any of the huge benefit concert last night, you probably noticed the samsung galaxy. those celebrities answering the phones, accepting donations, they were using the samsung galaxy phone. i'm noticing a really big push by samsung to become the new cool and make your iphone your dad or your grand father's smart phone. i mean, here's the question, ill think that apple is losing its cool. -- i think that apple is losing its cool and i think samsung is getting it. you say what? charles: i agree. in part because they have a great product. the marketing has been fantastic. that one commercial where everyone is waiting in line for the apple product and they are looking at the guy with the samsung with all these gadgets that maybe they will get next year. that was a youtube sensation. and, you know, there it is right there on the screen. it's absolutely amazing. stuart: i think the market is taking note because apple is in

what, 520, 530, down 180 bucks from the high. google just moved back well above $700 a share. >> you cannot trade on cool forever. if you use that as your marketing ploy, eventually the next group of people that come up don't want to be associated with what the people are doing before them. they want to blaze a new trail. you are always going to have that turnover. stuart: cool gives you a profit margin, a fat profit margin. >> for some period of time until you become uncool. charles: let's give them a credit. apple has been a major innovator for a long time. that's where people are catching up. they're being attacked on all sides of the empire. >> and haven't done anything particularly innovative in a little while. we will see if apple tv will reenergize. stuart: let's move away from this for a while. what do we have on google? nicole? the stock is up again. what's going on with google and apple? nicole: looking good. i feel like we're ganging up on

apple a little bit because we talked about research in motion getting a contract away from apple. we're talking now about google. now they're going to bring the google maps back to the iphone, the ipad, and as you use that word rejoicing, the apple users are so pleased because they have been so frustrated with the maps that apple tried to do on their own. stuart: yeah, but basically google saying hey, we won. we got the map app. it's a good one. apple app maps lousy. apple stock down. google stock up. i think i've got it right. nicole: that's right. there are still a lot of folks who are really hot on apple. i hate to throw them under the bus like this, but in this case today, all of the folks over at google are doing the dances, like what the nfl players do in the end zone, like one of these, something, i don't know. stuart: i'm just waiting for the microsoft phone to become suddenly cool, you know. because i own microsoft stock. everybody knows it. i'm looking for cool.

nicole: you're cool. charles: they call it retro. it comes and goes every now and then. stuart: all right all right pipe down. later this hour, why is john stossel offending christians two weeks before christmas? find out what he said. hear him defend himself because i'm going to have a go at him. that will be 10:45 this morning on this program. now, housing, it's said to be a bright spot in a weak economic recovery, but just who is doing the buying? well, the answer is foreigners are doing a lot of the buying. joining us now is someone who knows this field, tonya is from team investments. welcome back. >> thank you for having me. stuart: you have four houses to show us. you have four foreign people -- foreigners who bought these houses. >> yes. stuart: tell us all about it. let's start with house number one. it is in atlanta. it sold for 825,000. >> exactly. stuart: can we put it -- do we have a picture of it? >> we do. stuart: let's look at this. sold for 825,000. the asking price was almost a

million, 999. who bought it? >> it sat on the market for 152 days and a canadian buyer who had family in the area that had lived there for ten years, they are buying a house to be close to their other family. stuart: that place that we're seeing? that's a nice house. >> it is gorgeous. stuart: you're saying a canadian walked in here with a big bag of money and stole it from under the noses of americans. >> that's right. they are the number one foreign buyer right now. stuart: canadians? >> yes. stuart: next house, arizona, it listed for what 550,000. >> it did. stuart: sold for how much? >> 500,000 in july. and they bought it as a vacation home. another canadian. stuart: did they pay cash. >> they paid cash, yes. stuart: that's a nice looking place. >> absolutely. it's in scottsdale, prime real estate. stuart: did you handle the sale? >> i did. stuart: quite prepared to sell america cheap. >> america is not on sale.

[laughter] charles: unless the buyer has cash. >> okay, it might be. stuart: settle down everyone. i want to show you a place in miami. this, the asking price was almost 6 million dollars. now this is a mansion and a half. 6 million the asking. what was the buying price? >> we have it under contract for 5 million dollars. stuart: under contract means somebody is going to buy this thing? >> yes. stuart: they put a deposit down. you have the money. stuart: exactly. we have the money. -- >> who have the money. a saudi arabian buyer has it rented for three years. stuart: the per year rental? >> $30,000 a month. they're willing to pay the first year and a half up front. stuart: wait a second. the buyer, the buyer, the saudi? >> yes. stuart: he's going to rent it? already have an agreement for three years at 30,000 a month,

$360,000 a year guaranteed income coming in for the purchase price of 5 million. >> right. so basically it's another half a million dollars after taxes and insurance and all that, that he can reduce his purchase price for. stuart: did he pay cash? >> he did pay cash. stuart: 5 million, just wrote the check? >> yes. stuart: last one, las vegas, this is not a previously owned home. new unit? >> it is. stuart: i'm looking at it. that's the whole unit; right? >> that is actually the clubhouse. this was actually a chinese investor, and they paid $635,000. the pool is going in as we speak. and they wanted to be in this particular -- stuart: wait a second. that's not the clubhouse. that's the house? >> this is the house. that was the clubhouse in the first picture. those are pictures of the house. stuart: 630,000? >> yes, in las vegas. stuart: forgive me for saying it, five years ago that would have been a million plus. >> mark my predictions, vegas is

going to come back in the second half of 2013. stuart: am i right that that place would have been a million plus five years ago? >> it is. vegas is about to lift the moratorium in march. going to have a flood of buyers in las vegas. stuart: i want to talk about a different real estate market. i'm going to read a news item about it and i want your comment. sit right there, tonya. >> okay. stuart: take a look at these numbers just out from detroit. more than 45% of the people, 16 and older, living there are not in the labor force. that's roughly half the people in detroit. they are not looking for work. they are not in work. out of labor force. about 35% of detroit's residents get food stamps. now, president obama went to detroit this week to make his case on taxing the rich to help the less fortunate. detroit clearly struggling. could this be foreshadowing the united states if we stay on the path any longer? forget that question. real estate, detroit is not a good location.

>> well, interesting, what's going on right now, according to the detroilt free press, the metro detroit homes have increased 22%, but they are $50,000 homes increasing to 65, 70,000 dollar homes. what scares me is it can't sustain because people are buying because it is cheap. who do they rent to? there's no one with jobs. when you're buying investment real estate, you have to look at okay i'm getting this great deal but what is it going to do for me in the long run? it is interesting. a book was published that said it was the poster child of the recession but it is going to make a comeback. and i'm, you know, curious to see, but i'm not buying real estate in detroit. >> are these primarily investors who are buying these properties because from -- stuart: not detroit, the other properties. >> in general, it sounds what you are saying these are primarily investors not people who are buying first and second homes. >> canadians make up the bulk of foreign buyers. chinese are second. 40% of the chinese that are

buying in the states are buying as investment problems. stuart: have you sold a property to an englishman? >> i haven't. do you want to buy something? stuart: no. i'm an american. excellent stuff. come and see us again. >> thank you. stuart: for the first time ever the fed links interest rates to unemployment. that's a very interesting prospect. i think i know how the judge is going to talk about this in a moment.

stuart: i said it before, i will say it again, i really do sound like a broken record. the market is flat in the early going this morning. dow jones average is up all of 10 points. today is the day after ben bernanke unveiled big new money printing program. it is also his 59th birthday, no impact on the market obviously. yum! brands up slightly today. this is the company behind taco bell and kfc. goldman sachs upgrading the stock, says its recent problems in china, only temporary. at this price $68 a share. 68 they say heading higher. goldman is downgrading darden restaurants. t it says -- it says the turnaround at olive guaarden is slow. it is down. boston beer makes sam adams beer, it expects to make more money next year, simple reason it is selling more beer. the stock hit all-time high today.

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stuart: the federal reserve is going to start tying interest rates to the unemployment rate. ben bernanke says he will not raise interest rates until unemployment is down to 6 1/2%. there's the link. all rise, judge andrew napolitano. i haven't even got his name out and he is shaking his head. what's so wrong with the federal reserve saying look we need 6 1/2% unemployment and we're going to move heaven and earth to get there, what's wrong with

that >> because i come from a view of the economy which says that interest rates should be the product of supply and demand. i know they are not. i know the federal reserve has the lawful authority to set them, in my view that's a violation of the constitution and a violation of our fundamental right to participate in the free market. but we have to live with it. so now you're basically asking me is this a wise economic move or a permissible constitutional move? stuart: no i'm asking you is it a wise economic move? we have carol roth reformed investment banker, i will ask the same question. >> all right. you also have an investment guru. stuart: i'm sorry, charles. is it a good economic policy >> no, it is not a good economic policy. stuart: why not? >> it is a stunt to make his decisions appear credible, likable, and soundly grounded. basically the federal reserve is trying to run say way from itself because every time it puts its big thumb on the scale of the free market, it

imbalances market forces. it creates false and temporary prosperity and creates false hopes and instability. he knows that. he's a historian. stuart: but it hasn't created prosperity. >> it's created prosperity for the banks through which the money gets into the market. that's the only people that prosper when he prints the cash. the rest of us don't prosper at all. >> there's a catalyst here that nobody likes to talk about, and there's a reason why they're keeping the rates low, and the reason is we cannot afford to service our debt if the rates start going up. if we start getting interest rates that rise up and up and up and we have got 16.4 trillion dollars in debt, do you know what that does to our budget? >> when interest rates are artificially low, that causes a bubble, an inordinant concentration of wealth and investment and resources in a spot that eventually can't tolerate it. we just had a bubble in 08 with real estate. do we want another bubble

because the government is telling us what the rent should be on the cash we borrow? >> it also destroys the wealth of the middle class and the people who are saving for retirement. the people who are saving for retirement need to put more principle in to be able to sustain a cost of living. stuart: charles schumer, senator schumer, he represents wall street, he's urging ben bernanke, get out there and print. >> it's because it is good for wall street. charles: it helps wall street. listen, his goal and what ben bernanke is trying to do is create the perception of prosperity that the judge is talking about. the stock market has doubled in four years. people look and their home values are going up. maybe they start to feel richer. they start to feel richer. maybe they go out and start to spend and it becomes -- >> transfer wealth. >> can i ask you a moral question? he's already announced that he's going to leave. he's probably going to go back to princeton. is it moral for him to make a decision that affects all of us

in order to enhance his legacy, other than to do the right thing? >> i don't think it is going to end up enhancing his legacy. >> he may think it is. i don't think it is either. charles: he said the unemployment rate is a false indicator of the strength of the economy. i think using 6.5% just buys him time more than anything else. >> exactly. charles: he knows that. he just threw it out, 6.5 -- >> because he will never hit it -- we will never hit it and keep the rates low so we can service our debt. >> it might be 2015, 2016. >> he will be long gone by then. stuart: wait till he stops printing. that would be interesting. >> the london school of economics would take him. [laughter] stuart: judge is the author of

the book theodore and woodrow. >> stuart varney is on page -- stuart: 278. thanks judge. >> pleasure. stuart: my take on the unions is next.

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>> microsoft will be coming out with x-box focused gaming tablet. it will be focused on gaming as well as entertainment. that's something to keep an eye on for 2013. stuart: oh yes it is. we're talking a lot about the cool factor on this program today. samsung appears to have it right now. apple may be losing it. and google stickle it to apple with that -- sticking it to apple with that new maps app. we're on it. nicole, best buy? nicole: 18% higher now. it just continues to soar here all on the potential that its founder richard schultz is moving forward and may make a formal offer here. what's interesting here as you see it -- by the way he founded this company in 1966. this is his baby.

i was into a best buy. i have two little boys. i have been to gamestop and toys "r" us. i haven't been to a best buy lately, have you? stuart: no i haven't. not in that particular marketplace. hold on a second. i've got carol roth, former investment banker, you're either shaking or nodding your head, i'm not sure which on best buy. >> maybe a bit of both. i think best buy needs to conduct a major turnaround and i'm not sure it can do it while it is a public company. i support this company going private. i think it is only the way it can do the radical change that needs to be done. i can see that happening. it's got to happen soon. nicole: last thing i want to say is these niche stores, circuit city, one store for just electronics, i don't know if that model works anymore because you can go to wal-mart, target and get that plus, plus. i don't know if that model works anymore. stuart: but i can go on-line. >> right.

best buy though was supposed to compete on service. they had the geek squad. that was their opportunity to differentiate themselves. they haven't fulfilled that promise yet. but it is an opportunity for them to differentiate themselves from an amazon or wal-mart. stuart: stock is up 18% as of right now. thanks everyone. it's called the fiscal cliff and we are flat out sick of it. the "wall street journal"'s dan henninger is coming up on this program 10:35. he says get it over with. republicans should give a little now but then make a fight of it later. is he right? here he comes. he's on his way. the debate about unions has focused on money, pay scales, union dues, but i think the crisis in the union movement goes oh so much deeper. here's my take on attitude. an us versus them approach does not work in the modern world. but that is the mentality of the unions today. what i picked up is hostility, a

stick it to them way of thinking. this is one reason why so much of our manufacturing industry has gone overseas, us and them. hopeless. in so many industries, the union contract with its rigid workplace rules, we only do this and you only do that, that stifles creativity and efficiency. see what happened to the twinkie? some teamster delivery trucks were not allowed to carry some of the hostess products, so they had to send two trucks, good-bye twinkie. you listen to those guys fighting in michigan and it sounds like a rally at a steel plant in 1952. listen to the language: solidarity, workers rights, fight. watching those guys makes me feel like i am in a time warp. so isn't this michigan revolution an opportunity for unions to reinvent themselves? not as the enemy of management, but an ally, is that possible? cooperate to beat the foreign competition? maybe i am a hopeless dreamer,

but if the unions stay stuck in the past, their long slide to oblivion will continue.

stuart: california governor jerry brown has prostate cancer. doctors say the cancer is its in early stages and the prognosis

is excellent. governor brown is expected to continue a full work schedule throughout treatment. he is 74 years old. why isn't the market rallying on news that the fed will pump 85 -- print 85 billion dollars a month and stick it into the economy? why isn't the market rallying? the dow is up 2. that's it. joining the company from chicago is larry levin with trading advantage. will you answer the question, please, larry? >> sure, stuart, i went around and talked to a bunch of traders yesterday after the fed meeting because i'm thinking the same thing myself, why will this market not go higher; right? we're stuck in the mid to, you know, low 1400s on the s&p and been stuck there for a while. most traders said the same thing, stuart, they think if the fed wasn't doing what it's doing now, the market would be going down a whole bunch. they really feel and i kind of agree that the market is really being propped up. but it can only go so much higher from where it is right now. if you took the stuff out of the way, maybe the market goes down a whole bunch. stuart: that doesn't sound too good, just being propped up,

that's the best we've got, propped up? that doesn't sound too good. >> it isn't good. and our government continuing to intervene and they have for a number of years now and don't show any signs of stopping. yesterday was another indication that it is going to continue forever. it's not a good thing, stuart smz i think our government -- i think our government is unfortunately waiting for the next bubble to blow the market up to bring it a lot higher, whether that's cars that run on water or whatever it might be, that's what they are waiting for, they need a bubble to improve this economy because it is not improving on its own and not improving with what our government is trying to do. stuart: point taken larry levin and thank you for making it. thanks. >> you are welcome. stuart: dan henninger from the "wall street journal" joins us now. dan, you don't particularly like the republican -- the way the republicans are handling these fiscal cliff talks, do you? >> no, not at all, stuart. i think they have bogged down into sort of standard beltway process, smoke and mirrors, and the whole country is watching, and they're becoming very despondent.

it seems to me the big question coming out of the elections was what does the republican party stand for now? they've just lost. what should they stand for? and the fiscal cliff, win or lose, was an opportunity for them to elevate some of the party's core principles on the economy, and nobody in washington is doing that right now. they're missing an enormous opportunity to define themselves. stuart: what's the core principle? small government? lower taxes? is that it? >> what's at issue here in the fiscal cliff negotiations is simply the size of government. how big is it going to get? and below that, whether the government is going to lead the economy or the private sector is going to lead the economy for a generation. the second big issue is the safety net, the so-called idea of preserving the safety net. is this going to become the most important thing we do in america, as in europe, or is america about something bigger and better and more interesting than simply preserving the safety net? >> or even defining the safety net. when i think of a safety net, i

think of a high wire and think of the net underneath. what's supposed to happen is you fall and it bounces and lifts you back. i feel like we have a fishing net here, where people get caught in it and stay in it forever. that's the difference between the safety net and the fishing net that we're ending up with right now. >> we end up having to work, go to work every day and pay taxes ultimately simply to protect this safety net, rather than create a vibrant growing economy that will create jobs in the future for our children, our grandchildren, that's what the democrats are saying no, we work to just support this safety net. and i think the republican party in washington is really missing an opportunity to present to the american people the big picture, why are you resisting barack obama? at the moment it looks as though they are resisting merely for sort of beltway process reasons. stuart: i think we're in a mess. i think we're printing up a storm. we sere a trillion dollars every year in debt. the president wants to keep spending more, so that means a bigger debt. and we've got a very slow

economy. i don't think this fiscal cliff talks will resolve anything. nothing. charles: the whole thing, though, a lot of conservatives are saying boehner may not be that far away from obama in ideology. in other words, he's purged the tea party within the ranks of the leadership within the g.o.p. and seems to be willing to go down the same path as the president. >> i'm not sure i believe that. i think boehner's heart is in the right place, but he's caught up. it's his role to sort of grind out a deal with the president, rather than speak for the party. noww you know, stuart, in the british system, someone will stand on the floor of the house of commons in the opposition and give a major statement of the party's position in any given fight. i don't see why it should not be possible to designate somebody like paul ryan or eric cantor or even marco rubio to stand down in washington and give a major presentation. charles: if they give the presentation and the lead ser

doing something different -- and the leader is doing something different, isn't that a mixed message? >> boehner needs to put it in a larger context of purpose. he hasn't done that. stuart: he's stuck in the process. >> he's bogged-down in the process and obama is defining the narrative. >> the fiscal cliff deal is really about tax hike, that's the primary component is about the tax hikes. the spending is a very little percentage. we're focusing on a deal rather than the larger economic issues. i think that's the problem, by talking fiscal cliff, it's distracting us from the underlying issue, and nobody is talking about that. charles: that's the war that the president won. that's what you are saying, the president has already established that narrative and the republicans may have missed their opportunity to counterargue. >> he did ask for more revenue, the question is how does he get it, whether higher rates or simply deductions and such? stuart: you call it as it is. dan, thank you very much. john stossel said something that offended christians two

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stuart: a long steady decline in gas prices, here's the good news, it continues. the new national average, $3.30 a gallon. that will be down 14 cents in the month and down a lot in the past three months. some places like st. louis, missouri, are below $3 a gallon. now to the markets, same old story, a dead flat day once more. plenty of economic news in the background, but no market movement. big drop in jobless claims. retail sales up only slightly in november. thanks to on-line retailers primarily like amazon. and the freddie mac 30 year mortgage rate down to 3.32%. how about that. we're coming back in 90 seconds with john stossel. we will debate god versus science. but i want you to listen carefully to these commercials, totally separate. tv ads can't be much louder than

the show you are watching. ...so as you can see, geico's customer satisfaction is at 97%. mmmm tasty.

and cut! very good. people are always asking me how we make these geico adverts. so we're taking you behind the scenes. this coffee cup, for example, is computer animated. it's not real. geico's customer satisfaction is quite real though. this computer-animated coffee tastes dreadful. geico. 15 minutes could save you 15 % or more on car insurance. someone get me a latte will ya, please? stuart: let's have a look at apple, down earlier, where sit now? nicole -- where is it now, nicole? nicole: right now it's still down. more products coming out next year, ipad, iphones, but the news today is they are getting the google maps back for their customers who are excited because they have struggled and been frustrated with the maps program that apple tried to institute on their own. you may remember it actually put a city in the middle of an ocean. stuart: yes i do recall that, yes. all right, nicole thank you very

much indeed. stuart: remember the big argument i had with an atheist yesterday about saying merry christmas? john stossel is going to do a version of that on his program tonight. he will be debating god versus science. john stossel joins us now. >> but i will say merry christmas. stuart: that's very big of you. what did you say on fox and friends this morning? did you say i'm a nonbeliever? >> i did. i said look i envy those of you who believe. i know religious people have more peace, more joy in their lives. surveys show they are happier. whenever i run into somebody who is going to africa to help poor people, odds are they are going with their church group. stuart: two weeks before christmas, right in the middle of hanukkah, you know, you may have offended people by just putting it right out there, i'm a nonbeliever. i mean it's almost in your face, isn't it? >> well, that's what we're supposed to do in news programs, discuss -- stuart: what i objected to the other day when the atheist was

on the show because he's sticking it in my face. >> we're singing know about the birth of christ and the holy night and all that, now is the time to discuss is there a conflict between science and religion? we have scientists and religious people on to debate that. i think it should be debated. stuart: would you have made such a statement about nonbelief, i don't believe in god, would you have said that right before yom kippur or in in middle of ramadan? >> sure. if i'm asked what i believe, i've tried to believe. i want to believe. you want me to answer honestly. stuart: i think a lot of our viewers feel they are in a corner. that people of faith -- [inaudible] -- i mean that seriously. i'm a believer. i am a believer. i believe in christ. >> how can the majority be in a corner? stuart: i feel like i'm in a corner because the nonbelievers

are always coming at me with these statements of i don't believe in god. i don't believe in it. and you never seem to think about my feelings, the way i'm going to react to this. i would suggest, john, maybe you should show some -- [inaudible]. how about that? >> you are the majority. i don't see how you can be under assault. if i'm not being tactful, i apologize. stuart: i think the minority is having a go at us, big-time. [talking over each other] >> i'm an agnostic. the atheists say i know there's no god. i don't know. stuart: the nonbelievers, the unconvinced, you are out there having a go at it. you've got the billboards up there. you are a small minority and yet you are having a go at us all the time. we feel like we're in a corner. >> how could 80% of america -- how can 80% of america -- stuart: they are out there suing everybody and his brother, if

you put up a cross or any kind of religious symbol. >> you exaggerate their disagreement. charles: john, you've got to admit, the atheists are on a role. took god out of the democratic platform. people are really worried about this, particularly people who want their kids to believe in god because i'm telling you the real thrust of this is with the kids. they are attacking our kids, you know, in schools and making them feel stupid for believing in god. >> well, i'm not trying to make anybody feel stupid for believing in god. and people who do believe in god accomplish wonderful things. but i think we should discuss that not all of us manage to believe and what that means and what's the evidence and i'm going to ask these people tonight, help me. i want to believe. what made you believe. stuart: what time are you on tonight? i am going to watch this extravaganza. was it 9:00 p.m. eastern? >> 9:00 p.m. eastern. stuart: the title of the show is stossel? >> this show is science versus god, question mark, is there a

conflict? stuart: john, it was good stuff. we appreciate you being with us. thank you very much john stossel. all right, pro-union demonstrators throwing fists in michigan. now the local community steps in to help a victim of those attacks. we have got it for you. it is next.

stuart: john mcafee back in the united states. many years ago he founded the computer software company that bears his name but recently he's been a recluse, living in beliz. he left that country after police there wanted to question him in the death of his neighbor. he says he is not guilty. >> this morning i was in jail. today here i am. i'm not worried at all. if i'm in front of a court, there's nothing in the world they will do to send me back. they have no evidence. stuart: that is john mcafee and he is now back in america. union members, caught on camera destroying a tent during the big protests over right to work laws earlier this week. one of the victims of this, a small business owner who was selling food. he says two people tore down his tent, overturned his table, smashed his hot dogs, spilled his chili. the community pitched in to raise money to help. that's pretty good, isn't it? charles: amazing.

>> it shows how the people are generous. we keep hearing how people don't want to pay taxes and don't want to contribute. people naturally are generous and when they are not forced to do something, they step up and do the right thing. i think that was demonstrated here stuart. stuart: i think they're prepared to make sure that nobody is a victim. charles: i remember in the 70s, they used to have those commercials, look for the union label and people would look for the union label. and now union, watch out we're going to beat down anybody in our way. >> costing small business people of america. 28 million of them, probably not a good strategy. stuart: next topic, which state will be next to go right to work? pennsylvania? ohio? they seem to be pretty obvious choices. both have republican governors. they don't apparently seem that anxious to push the issue. so i am told, reliably. what do you say? any input on this?

ohio, pennsylvania? >> i know it is not going to be illinois. i can guarantee you that that will not be the next one. i'm willing to put money on that one stuart. stuart: i think it was a revolution in michigan. i'm surprised there isn't more enthusiasm to follow suit especially ohio and pennsylvania. but i'm told there is no such enthusiasm charles. charles: you might even throw new jersey in there. big blue states, republican governors, you would think maybe they would start to go that way. high unemployment. it's all the right -- but i don't think the public is going for it. >> pennsylvania is possibly more likely than ohio given what we saw happened in the last election. stuart: but never new york state. >> and never illinois. charles: new york can't make up its mind on fracking, creating jobs. stuart: please, don't tell me about it. the highlight reel is next. ♪

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charles: apple has been a major innovator for a long time. >> it has not done anything innovative for a while. >> if you use it as your marketing ploy, it will become a fad. stuart: if you watched the concert last night -- >> some period of time until you become uncool. stuart: are they uncool now? apple, say it isn't so. >> they may not be uncool, but warren buffett is uncool. he is getting on my nerves. i want him to put his money where his mouth is. instead of giving it to charity, give it to the government, or work with the government.